Tumbling vs Stunting.

[cheerga94]

Just from watching this season and seeing a lot of teams with great history struggle on maxing out on tumbling(or having girls chunk fulls they clearly are not ready to do to max out) makes me wonder why GHSA makes it pretty difficult for schools across the board to max out in tumbling but practically does not reward anything harder than a full up and switch for stunting. It just bothers me that there are teams out there with creative and consistent stunting, but their only chance to do well is to have mistakes from other teams.

Maxing out with 3 fulls in standing and 4 in tumbling is not easy for schools as a whole in the state. Atlanta teams YES, with the amount of great and reputable all-star/gymnastics gyms up there it is a lot easier for them to pull all this tumbling but even then there are schools up there who struggle.

And yes i am fully aware of schools not even close to the north that can pull out all the tumbling, but i just feel as a whole it is very difficult for schools to come up with the numbers to max out.

Using AAA as an example, i do believe Pierce is the only AAA team in the state to max out on everything. And in AAAA only 2 max out on everything.

Not trying to disregard the teams that can max out on tumbling, but i generally wish there were other ways in general to win back those points, which could definitely be done in stunting and the execution areas.
Do combo passes thru to tucks/layouts not count for anything?  Im going to refer to all-stars where a combo pass thru to full would count the same as a running double full.

There are so many great teams out there with good routines and great execution/consistency but it is just crazy to me that their chances of winning a state title or even placing top 6 would come down to not having enough people twisting. I feel as if that is what state is always boiling down to.

[Cheerymom]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!!  WE ARE FROM A SMALL TOWN AND HAVE TO DRIVE 30 MILES TO GO TO TUMBLING, BUT WE DO IT TWICE A WEEK.  IF YOU WANT TO BE THE BEST YOU HAVE TO TRAIN LIKE THE BEST...ITS REALLY NO DIFFERENT THAN BATTING AND PITCHING PRIVATE LESSONS FOR SOFTBALL OR ANY OTHER SPORT.  TUMBING IS A HUGE PART OF CHEERLEADING ON THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL.  ITS NOT ALWAYS EASY GETTING TO TUMBLING CLASSES BUT WE DO IT.  SOMETIMES IT MEANS LATE NIGHTS WITH HOMEWORK BUT AGAIN IT IS DO-ABLE.  ANYONE CAN LEARN A FULL THAT WANTS TO....ANYONE CAN HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE TUMBLING PASS IF THEY WORK HARD ENOUGH.  AGAIN, NOT LOOKING FOR A HUGE ARGUE FEST, JUST GIVING MY OPINION...

[Cheerknowledge]

Using AAA as an example, i do believe Pierce is the only AAA team in the state to max out on everything. And in AAAA only 2 max out on everything.

Actually....only one team in AAAA truly maxes out.  The problem is the judges are not noticing the glitch in the routine.


The issue you have here is with the rubric.  The rubric is designed to make it "fair" for all teams.  Now I understand that it isn't possibly fair when asking for specifics but that is what the rubric is designed to do.  It is also designed so that every school has a chance from tumbling to stunting if fulfilling the requirements. 


If the rubric didn't exist and teams were truly judged on what the "could" do, I am afraid you wouldn't see the mixup for the top spot as much as you do.  Some teams would be on the top and never leave because the talent is so thick. 


So while I agree that tumbling is difficult, you have to sort of pick your poison here.


One team could come out and tumble like crazy and stunt like crazy and the team that could stunt very good but not tumble would always be left on the outside looking in.

The rubric is the problem.  With that said, I do think it could use some tweaking.....

[Cheerknowledge]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!!  WE ARE FROM A SMALL TOWN AND HAVE TO DRIVE 30 MILES TO GO TO TUMBLING, BUT WE DO IT TWICE A WEEK.  IF YOU WANT TO BE THE BEST YOU HAVE TO TRAIN LIKE THE BEST...ITS REALLY NO DIFFERENT THAN BATTING AND PITCHING PRIVATE LESSONS FOR SOFTBALL OR ANY OTHER SPORT.  TUMBING IS A HUGE PART OF CHEERLEADING ON THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL.  ITS NOT ALWAYS EASY GETTING TO TUMBLING CLASSES BUT WE DO IT.  SOMETIMES IT MEANS LATE NIGHTS WITH HOMEWORK BUT AGAIN IT IS DO-ABLE.  ANYONE CAN LEARN A FULL THAT WANTS TO....ANYONE CAN HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE TUMBLING PASS IF THEY WORK HARD ENOUGH.  AGAIN, NOT LOOKING FOR A HUGE ARGUE FEST, JUST GIVING MY OPINION...

Like it....with the all caps     The only part I disagree with is...I don't believe everybody is capable of learning a full.  Some people just hit their plateau and that is all they are capable of.  But tumbling will always be a huge part of cheerleading. We need to get used to it.

[cheernerd10]

I agree with CheerKnowledge... I don't think everyone can learn a full but they are probably stronger elsewhere in the cheer world. For example, I know plenty of college top girls who don't full but they are so tiny and talented that they make elite pograms because of those skills.

[cheerga94]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!!  WE ARE FROM A SMALL TOWN AND HAVE TO DRIVE 30 MILES TO GO TO TUMBLING, BUT WE DO IT TWICE A WEEK.  IF YOU WANT TO BE THE BEST YOU HAVE TO TRAIN LIKE THE BEST...ITS REALLY NO DIFFERENT THAN BATTING AND PITCHING PRIVATE LESSONS FOR SOFTBALL OR ANY OTHER SPORT.  TUMBING IS A HUGE PART OF CHEERLEADING ON THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL.  ITS NOT ALWAYS EASY GETTING TO TUMBLING CLASSES BUT WE DO IT.  SOMETIMES IT MEANS LATE NIGHTS WITH HOMEWORK BUT AGAIN IT IS DO-ABLE.  ANYONE CAN LEARN A FULL THAT WANTS TO....ANYONE CAN HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE TUMBLING PASS IF THEY WORK HARD ENOUGH.  AGAIN, NOT LOOKING FOR A HUGE ARGUE FEST, JUST GIVING MY OPINION...

Like it....with the all caps     The only part I disagree with is...I don't believe everybody is capable of learning a full.  Some people just hit their plateau and that is all they are capable of.  But tumbling will always be a huge part of cheerleading. We need to get used to it.

My issue is the rubric. It's that the only way to max out is by having those fulls and that it doesn't reward combo passes to layouts or heck even combo passes to fulls(unless full to full)


Yes tumbling is a HUGE HUGE part of cheerleading, and I'm not saying they should lower the amount of fulls to max out, but i wish there was other ways to get those points too.

And yes A LOT of people go to tumbling multiple times a week, but no not everyone will get a full.

[Cheerymom]

I GUESS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS SIMPLY THIS...IF YOU WANT TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH THE BEST THEN YOU HAVE TO TRAIN LIKE THEY DO.  NOW I AGREE EVERYONE CANT GET A FULL, BUT YOU DONT NEED A WHOLE TEAM OF FULLS TO MAX OUT.  YOU GET OUT OF IT WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT, JUST LIKE WITH ANY OTHER SPORT.  THE TEAMS WHO PRACTICE (AND PRIVATE LESSONS) ARE ALWAYS GONNA HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER THE ONES WHO DONT.  IF I WERE A CHEER COACH I WOULD REQUIRE MY ENTIRE TEAM TO BE IN TUMBING CLASSES....BUT AGAIN THATS ME.

[Cheerymom]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!!!  WE ARE FROM A SMALL TOWN AND HAVE TO DRIVE 30 MILES TO GO TO TUMBLING, BUT WE DO IT TWICE A WEEK.  IF YOU WANT TO BE THE BEST YOU HAVE TO TRAIN LIKE THE BEST...ITS REALLY NO DIFFERENT THAN BATTING AND PITCHING PRIVATE LESSONS FOR SOFTBALL OR ANY OTHER SPORT.  TUMBING IS A HUGE PART OF CHEERLEADING ON THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL.  ITS NOT ALWAYS EASY GETTING TO TUMBLING CLASSES BUT WE DO IT.  SOMETIMES IT MEANS LATE NIGHTS WITH HOMEWORK BUT AGAIN IT IS DO-ABLE.  ANYONE CAN LEARN A FULL THAT WANTS TO....ANYONE CAN HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE TUMBLING PASS IF THEY WORK HARD ENOUGH.  AGAIN, NOT LOOKING FOR A HUGE ARGUE FEST, JUST GIVING MY OPINION...

Like it....with the all caps     The only part I disagree with is...I don't believe everybody is capable of learning a full.  Some people just hit their plateau and that is all they are capable of.  But tumbling will always be a huge part of cheerleading. We need to get used to it.

AGREED! I SHOULD HAVE CHOSEN MY WORDS BETTER, OBVIOUSLY NOT EVERYONE CAN LEARN A FULL BUT ALOT MORE COULD BE ON THAT LEVEL OF TUMBLING IF THEY WENT TO CLASSES AND WORKED HARD....

[Cheerknowledge]

Yes very true...to be the best...you have to train like the best.  It may not happen, but you have a better shot.

[cheerga94]

I GUESS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS SIMPLY THIS...IF YOU WANT TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH THE BEST THEN YOU HAVE TO TRAIN LIKE THEY DO.  NOW I AGREE EVERYONE CANT GET A FULL, BUT YOU DONT NEED A WHOLE TEAM OF FULLS TO MAX OUT.  YOU GET OUT OF IT WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT, JUST LIKE WITH ANY OTHER SPORT.  THE TEAMS WHO PRACTICE (AND PRIVATE LESSONS) ARE ALWAYS GONNA HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER THE ONES WHO DONT.  IF I WERE A CHEER COACH I WOULD REQUIRE MY ENTIRE TEAM TO BE IN TUMBING CLASSES....BUT AGAIN THATS ME.

I think you are missing my point. I'm just saying that i feel as if there should be more ways to max out than just the 3/4 full rule. I wouldn't say that just because 4 people have that they they are "the best" and that i need to train like them. Tumbling(as well as even stunting) comes to different to everyone. There is absolutely no "in between" if thats a good way to word it on this scoresheet. You either have 3/4 fulls or you don't max out. Combo passes do not seem to matter.

And my squad worked hard. We had a community coach that worked for a gym so we also had tumbling classes once a week(and could sign up for privates/classes from his gym) but we never had more than 2 fulls. That squad since then has been very successful so i can see it from both sides. But i wish there was just more that the scoresheet rewarded.

[OnThisDayIseeClearly]

I agree that tumbling is part of cheerleading and those serious should be willing to sacrifice to get better.  However, I also agree it's biased toward people in big cities or those who live near cities with gyms.  What I also think goes unnoticed is that in small towns, often times the girls who are going to gymnastics are also involved in other things because the good cheerleader is also a good cross country runner or good actress.  It's a bigger burden on small towns schools.

My bigger problem is that too much weight is placed upon tumbling.   Last year, a team that hit a flawlessly executed routine didn't win state because another squad had one more full.  There should be more of a balance